Another High School Shooting in the US

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I am not a hippy, for from it, but give me one good reason why you need a gun? There isn't one, and "because" or "its my right" doesn't count; lame answers when lives etc are potentially at risk.

ok.... wanna explain why you need a nice, shiny fairmont ghia? i'm sure your feet are capable of getting you from point A to point B satisfactorily, if you need to go further, get a pushbike!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by ea_weapon

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So spending millions of taxpayers dollars on buying back firearms for no noticable fall in violent crime figures is "working"? Oh please. Of course it's working, there's no gangland murders in Melbourne involving firearms at all!



....

I won't even touch that one, though I believe Pol Pot gave it a crack in the 70's.

And why would you care about the gangland killings? There doing the community a favor knocking off each other.

And you can have any law you like, there's always going to be underworld/black market stuff, but sitting back and doing nothing about the situation is pathetic.

There no point arguing/discussing this with people who seem to think that having full access to any gun you want is ok. If you honestly dont see an issue, fine, like I said I dont care, im just happy the way things are here.

If you need to feel more manly, or are scared of something then America currently is the place for you.

And again, the pro gun people still haven't given an answer to my question of why you need them....

[athol]

I think Americans are numbed to shootings, I was just having a look on a Mustang site over there, there was a post about the shooting just after it happened has only had 3 replies and is about to be pushed of the front page by car posts, they seem to more concerned about their cars than the mass slaughter of their school students.



Athol.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Polyal

And again, the pro gun people still haven't given an answer to my question of why you need them....

and i'm still waiting for a reason why you need a car!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

ok.... wanna explain why you need a nice, shiny fairmont ghia? i'm sure your feet are capable of getting you from point A to point B satisfactorily, if you need to go further, get a pushbike!

Dont talk about another topic, this has nothing to do with Ford Falcons, talk guns. Your analogies are not good enough.

Why do I need a fairmont? Because a) its perfectly legal for me to own one, b) I need to get to uni/work/see family...if I didn't have the car I would ride my bike or catch public transport; which has nothing to do with guns!

[Fordman1]

In the end guys, we are after all talking about the murder of over thirty young people here. Their families will have to live with this for the rest of their lives.

It seems the authorities should have locked the school down, but didn't, and made the assumption that the gun man had escaped !

[dansedgli]

So you're advocating vigilantism?

So if there's always going to be a black market, why restrict lawful citizens? 90% of gun crime in Australia involves illegal firearms. I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure suicide is included in those stats. The government does sit back and do nothing! What the hell does a buy back of firearms from sporting shooters and hunters achieve? Will criminals everywhere just have a change of heart and give their weapons up?

The pistols used in this shooting were illegal. The shooter was in the country on a student visa. You need a green card to legally own a firearm in the US. What could the banning of legal firearms have done to prevent it?

The AR-15 that Martin Bryant used was handed in for destruction in 1993. What effect would banning legal firearms have had on it?

I'm not saying there should be a free for all on firearms. I believe safes are a great idea and always store my rifles, bolts and ammunition seperate, with locks through the action of the rifles. I do have a problem with registration of all firearms. In this day and age of confidential police documents and so forth falling into the wrong hands it's stupid to have a virtual shopping list for criminals.

I believe in open and concealed carry. It works in many US states. I do believe in the right to own firearms for self defence. It also works in many US states. I have no problems with semi-automatic firearms in public hands. They have a place in practical shooting events. They have a place in hunting pests such as rabbits. They have purpose as collectors items. They are a hell of a lot of fun as well.

Sure you don't need them, but what do you need? Food, water, oxygen and shelter. Everything is else is just a luxury. A lot of these luxuries also kill people, be it their intented purpose or not.

Why do you feel the need to own a 6 cylinder Falcon? To feel more manly than Toyota Echo drivers? There is absolutely no need for anyone to own anything more than a white 3 cylinder diesel hybrid that is speed limited to 110 km.

Which by the way, you still haven't given a reason why anyone needs a performance car.

[HTCURRY]

Why do these topics always become a battle btw the pro/anti gun lobbies?

Short of making sure there were no guns in the US, not much could have prevented this.

*Lets pretend like there are no guns at all in the US legal or otherwise...problem solved right? hmmm not like anything illegal ever crosses the border from Mexico.

Whether the guns are licensed or not doesnt change the action. If it was done with a licensed guns, it just makes it easier to track people down, but it doesnt change the fate of the dead.

According to CNN guns were a .22 and a 9 mm.

I also dont think the authorities can be blamed for this....this is not your local TAFE.

I grew up in Virginia, and went down to Va Tech to watch the Hokies play a quite a few football games.

The campus is HUGE, 90+ buildings, and acres and acres of grounds.


No way for authorities to assume a shooting in a dormitory would then escalate into a massacre in actual faculty buildings.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Dont talk about another topic, this has nothing to do with Ford Falcons, talk guns. Your analogies are not good enough.

Why do I need a fairmont? Because a) its perfectly legal for me to own one, b) I need to get to uni/work/see family...if I didn't have the car I would ride my bike or catch public transport; which has nothing to do with guns!

you can do all of those on foot or with a pushbike, two quite legal means of transportation, and a LOT cheaper too!

untill ignorant morons started all the bullshit about "killer guns" it was quite legal to own ANY type of gun

what will you do the day when the aformentioned ignorant morons get all vehicles banned?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by ea_weapon

So you're advocating vigilantism?

So if there's always going to be a black market, why restrict lawful citizens? 90% of gun crime in Australia involves illegal firearms. The government does sit back and do nothing! What the hell does a buy back of firearms from sporting shooters and hunters achieve? Will criminals everywhere just have a change of heart and give their weapons up?

The pistols used in this shooting were illegal. The shooter was in the country on a student visa. You need a green card to legally own a firearm in the US. What could the banning of legal firearms have done to prevent it?

The AR-15 that Martin Bryant used was handed in for destruction in 1993. What effect would banning legal firearms have had on it?

I'm not saying there should be a free for all on firearms. I believe safes are a great idea and always store my rifles, bolts and ammunition seperate, with locks through the action of the rifles. I do have a problem with registration of all firearms. In this day and age of confidential police documents and so forth falling into the wrong hands it's stupid to have a virtual shopping list for criminals.

I believe in open and concealed carry. It works in many US states. I do believe in the right to own firearms for self defence. It also works in many US states. I have no problems with semi-automatic firearms in public hands. They have a place in practical shooting events. They have a place in hunting pests such as rabbits. They have purpose as collectors items. They are a hell of a lot of fun as well.

Sure you don't need them, but what do you need? Food, water, oxygen and shelter. Everything is else is just a luxury. A lot of these luxuries also kill people, be it their intented purpose or not.

Why do you feel the need to own a 6 cylinder Falcon? To feel more manly than Toyota Echo drivers? There is absolutely no need for anyone to own anything more than a white 3 cylinder diesel hybrid that is speed limited to 110 km.

Which by the way, you still haven't given a reason why anyone needs a performance car.

Naturally I dont advocate vigilantism; but if one druggie kills another do you think I care, hell no. We have a system to deal with that, either way the living druggie will be in jail for "x" amount of time, so thats win win from where I am sitting.

You make alot of good points, but to sit back and do nothing I think is even worse; its negligence.

Like I said, no law, no legislation, no amount of policing is going to stop everything. But if it makes it harder for your average Joe to get there hands on the stuff then I am all for it.

So then it will just be the people that genuinely want to own a gun that go ahead and do it. If you want to own a gun and not be licensed or whatever; thats fine, but thats the risk you run.

As for the car stuff, thats been done before, do a serach on performance cars or something like that. But in brief, I have no issue with performance cars, the issue is with who drives them; and those P plater laws (which I assume is what you are getting at) are good, just like the gun laws we have. Its better than doing nothing at all.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

you can do all of those on foot or with a pushbike, two quite legal means of transportation, and a LOT cheaper too!

untill ignorant morons started all the bullshit about "killer guns" it was quite legal to own ANY type of gun

what will you do the day when the aformentioned ignorant morons get all vehicles banned?

Yeah I agree, some people go waay overboard, im not a lefty thats for sure, but there is a middle ground.

The media is always going to jump up and down with the issue because for whatever reason that sells papers.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by ea_weapon

The point is firearms are a tool of the land, reguardless if it is a cockie behind it or a shooter he has allowed on his property. While I know you didn't say it, for people to say only farmers should be allowed firearms, not anyone living in a city, is plain stupid. Just used your post as an example.

Thanks for making an example of me.

I agree with you for the most part. If someone wants to have that ( shooting) as a hobbie then why not.

As long as the firearm they are buying is fit for the purpose I see no issue. Small calibre semi autos and pump action shotties are great for shooting bunnies and other vermin. I have done a bit of this as well as clay shooting. Lots of fun and a good family passtime. Lots of father/son groups where otherwise doing stuff together. Mum and the sister coming along, having a feed in the car park ( BBQ or picnic), even the girls having a go sometimes.

I was spewing the day my old man had to hand in his Browning semi auto .22cal. It was an antique and took .22 shorts. Hardly a danger to anyone bigger than a cat.

He had purchased it as a teenager and done it up. When he bought it the gun was old. I saw it as somethng to pass on to my kids some day.

[Ryan]

The difference between cars and guns is, cars are a means of transportation, while guns are weapons, and 90% of the time are used to kill or injure people.

It's true a car can be just as deadly as a gun, but that's not the primary use of it.

Anyway I think they should get tighter with the guns availability over there. Yeah it wont stop, but it'll atleast reduce the death toll of gun related violence.

[HTCURRY]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The difference between cars and guns is, cars are a means of transportation, while guns are weapons, and 90% of the time are used to kill or injure people.

You are going to get yourself into trouble trying to defend that statistic if someone asks to you back it up.

*illegal guns maybe

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by HTCURRY

You are going to get yourself into trouble trying to defend that statistic if someone asks to you back it up.

It's not a statistic. Just an observation.

I'm quite aware some people don't have guns to inflict injury or death upon others (Antique guns, deer hunting, skeet shooting etc). Just saying that alot of time that's what a gun is used for.

[XRated]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The difference between cars and guns is, cars are a means of transportation, while guns are weapons, and 90% of the time are used to kill or injure people.

You've got it all wrong! Guns are only made for sport/hobbies and killing animals!

You see, cars were originally designed to plow down groups of people. Can't you see the connection!

[GT290]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

and i'm still waiting for a reason why you need a car!

Why would you need to ask that question, pretty self explanatory and probably the same reason why you have car, other wise you would not be here on the forum.
For some of the other posts, this thread is bloody stupid! HP cars killing people hahaha gees I got a HP car and now I can kill people, what a load of crap. I buy a gun, now I might just want to for intentional purposes go out and kill some one and with a gun you can actually do that because that is what they are made for...go figure. I buy a HP car and I am a potenial killer? man if I wanted to I could use any car truck bike tractor or plane for that matter.
Have a teaspoon of cement and harden up you bunch of soft c**** Never heard so much rott. At least be constructive about this and before anyone dare say to me I don't know about guns and licensing or have I ever been shooting, don't. Most of us are sound minded people but in a world so vastly populated I think you are going to find few bodys not wired up right and some are predictible and sad some are calculating and ill. Who is any one to class any one in this catergory. Take a look in our own back yard and look at the hard ship, debt, jeolousy, wife takes house and kids situations, could be any one of you and it might be one of you who snap. Most of you would not even know that a man who has taken his life left a suicide note for the woman that took evrything because oh no we can not have that no. You know what they call it, death by miss adventure. Thats how much this country cares about its people and the torments that go on with in it. Beleive me too when I say I have known some very strong minded people who work in a life threatening job every day yes brave men at times who have flipped for one reason or another. Any way the topic is bigger than Ben Hur and you could be here for ever trying to work it out or debate it but you will never get to the end of it and there will be a thousand more killed and really who cares unless there is an agenda to massage their own egos.

[Ryan]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/..._tech_shooting

It turns out the gunman was a student, of the university.

[GT290]

Originally Posted by XRated

You've got it all wrong! Guns are only made for sport/hobbies and killing animals!

You see, cars were originally designed to plow down groups of people. Can't you see the connection!

clearly, hahahaha

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by GT290

Why would you need to ask that question, pretty self explanatory and probably the same reason why you have car, other wise you would not be here on the forum.
For some of the other posts, this thread is bloody stupid! HP cars killing people hahaha gees I got a HP car and now I can kill people, what a load of crap. I buy a gun, now I might just want to for intentional purposes go out and kill some one and with a gun you can actually do that because that is what they are made for...go figure. I buy a HP car and I am a potenial killer? man if I wanted to I could use any car truck bike tractor or plane for that matter.
Have a teaspoon of cement and harden up you bunch of soft c**** Never heard so much rott. At least be constructive about this and before anyone dare say to me I don't know about guns and licensing or have I ever been shooting, don't. Most of us are sound minded people but in a world so vastly populated I think you are going to find few bodys not wired up right and some are predictible and sad some are calculating and ill. Who is any one to class any one in this catergory. Take a look in our own back yard and look at the hard ship, debt, jeolousy, wife takes house and kids situations, could be any one of you and it might be one of you who snap. Most of you would not even know that a man who has taken his life left a suicide note for the woman that took evrything because oh no we can not have that no. You know what they call it, death by miss adventure. Thats how much this country cares about its people and the torments that go on with in it. Beleive me too when I say I have known some very strong minded people who work in a life threatening job every day yes brave men at times who have flipped for one reason or another. Any way the topic is bigger than Ben Hur and you could be here for ever trying to work it out or debate it but you will never get to the end of it and there will be a thousand more killed and really who cares unless there is an agenda to massage their own egos.

Someone is off his medication me thinks! :ticking: :ticking:

[GT290]

haha, yeah what ever. at the end of the day who really cares

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by ea_weapon

The pistols used in this shooting were illegal. The shooter was in the country on a student visa. You need a green card to legally own a firearm in the US. What could the banning of legal firearms have done to prevent it?

Actually, he purchased the weapons legally.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0407/415129.html

http://cbs5.com/topstories/topstorie...107173020.html

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Lagom

Actually, he purchased the weapons legally.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0407/415129.html

http://cbs5.com/topstories/topstorie...107173020.html

Both of those handguns are totally prohibited from private ownership in every state and territory in Australia already as are the extended magazines.

[wulos]

Some members may note that a few posts have been removed from this thread by myself. They were removed to pay the victim(s) of this tragedy the respect they deserve - not to make lighthearted fun over....
Incidents like these will always attract some extreme differences in opinion, as people deal with things in their own ways. Some express this by shock, some by outrage, others resort to their own type of humour (none of these is wrong by the way) just some viewed as not as appropriate for public viewing on AFF as others......

[jason_85]

Condolences to the victims and the families!

I dont understand who randomly takes video footage when a shooting is about to occur ??????

Maybe someone knew it was going to happen... just suss thats all

[Homer1]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

The Shooter is rumoured to be a Chinese student, which means that the guns used were *not* obtained legally. It has nothing to do with gun control laws, Except perhaps if people were permitted to CC on campus old mate might not have squeezed off 60+ rounds...

No, shooter was Korean. He wasn't an O/S student as he had been living in the US since he was a child. Thus he was a US citizen or resident at least and obtained the guns legally and was seen on CCTV buying them in the gun store. He had no previous criminal activity so the gunshop had no reason to deny him the guns.

[GT290]

Heard on the news this morning the student was a south Korean. Probably took too much of the wrong drugs. ahe was known as a very quiet person who stuck to him self and was known for making some real weird movies or writing weid stuff. can not recall what the weird stuff was.

[dansedgli]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The difference between cars and guns is, cars are a means of transportation, while guns are weapons, and 90% of the time are used to kill or injure people.

Oh please....

I fired 300 odd rounds last weekend. Based on 90% of the time firearms being used to kill or injure, that means someone else fired 2700 rounds in anger to counter my 300? If you're going to make something up, at least make it realistic.

Perhaps your statistic works out in Iraq, but last time I checked we're not there.

It's true a car can be just as deadly as a gun, but that's not the primary use of it.

More people die in car accidents in Australia than gun related murders. I'll even go out on a limb and say more people die in accidents in cars driven over the speed limit than in gun related murders involving legal firearms.

But cars weren't designed for killing, so it's ok?

Originally Posted by Lagom

Actually, he purchased the weapons legally.

Yep, I'll pay that. Yesterday I heard from numerous sources he was in the country on a student visa, not a perm resident visa.

After hearing about his history you've got to wonder why the hell he was allowed one. While I'm pro-gun, I have two major objections with the US system. The so called "back ground checks", which pretty much mean you a; aren't a convicted fellon and b; are a citizen or have a green card and the ease of getting a firearm through a private sale. Both of which are massive issues.

Originally Posted by flappist

Both of those handguns are totally prohibited from private ownership in every state and territory in Australia already as are the extended magazines.

Lucky, those Glocks are so evil with their sub-120mm barrel length.

[GT290]

[QUOTE=ea_weapon]




More people die in car accidents in Australia than gun related murders. I'll even go out on a limb and say more people die in accidents in cars driven over the speed limit than in gun related murders involving legal firearms.

But cars weren't designed for killing, so it's ok?



Wonder if little johny in his wisdom will arrange a buy back on all our cars?

[DJM83]

Makes you wonder what makes some people tick.
Deepest sympathy to all involved and RIP to all that have passed