8 year old girl found dead in toilet - Page 2

DJL351 · 27-06-2006, 12:20 PM

This is another forum where this story has pushed some emo's...
Some for, some against death....

Hopefully I don't get hung be the mods for posting a link in here...???
(sorry, trying so hard to make light of this very dark act)

:

Overclockers

Yummy Mummy · 27-06-2006, 12:21 PM

I'm sitting at my desk at work, and just started crying when I read that.

That poor little boy. He is going to be haunted by that for the rest of his life. Such an absolute tragedy. I hope they string the guy up by his testicles and let him stay there and rot.

Condolences to the family.

biomechanic · 27-06-2006, 12:25 PM

I'm not sure what I find more sickening - the death of an 8 year old girl, or the calls for revenge killing, torture, and rape from this forum.

4.9 EF Futura · 27-06-2006, 12:28 PM

21yo man has been charged with murder

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...174162580.html

Abacus · 27-06-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT 8888

This is tragic, I have an 8 year old daughter and I can't imagine the pain that the family is going through at the moment.

Can't say I am an advocate for the death penalty, but events like this really get you thinking again.

Brad

I have an 8 year old daughter also. And events like this make me 100% in favour of the death penalty.

Even if they catch the bastard, what's going to happen? At the very worst, twenty five years with a colour TV. By the time that little girl should have been 33, with a young family of her own and the rest of her life ahead of her, that grub will be back on the outside laughing at the rest of us because we're paying for his social security.

It costs around $50,000pa to keep a prisoner in medium security. Assuming the pig that did this gets 25 years, we will have paid about $1,250,000 to keep him alive. Surely the money would be better spent elsewhere? Schools for starters.

I honestly cannot understand the mentality of anybody, and in particular fathers of young children, that are in favour of keeping filth like this alive.

Abacus · 27-06-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biomechanic

I'm not sure what I find more sickening - the death of an 8 year old girl, or the calls for revenge killing, torture, and rape from this forum.

If you really don't know which of the above is more sickening, you should be in jail with the maggot that killed the girl.

4.9 EF Futura · 27-06-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

I honestly cannot understand the mentality of anybody, and in particular fathers of young children, that are in favour of keeping filth like this alive.

Perhaps you'd appreciate the perspective of such a person?

The reason why I would not be in favour of the death penalty is a) death is an easy way out and b) WHAT IF YOU PUT THE WRONG PERSON TO DEATH?

a) is fairly self explanatory. As for b)...

In your opinion, how many cases of the death penalty would it be acceptable to get "wrong". i.e. what % of death sentences do you think it would be acceptable where said person is later found to be innocent?

I would argue 0%. The state has no right to kill innocent people. You cant gurantee 0% wrongful execution. You cannot.

What if you were the innocent facing a lethal injection?

biomechanic · 27-06-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

If you really don't know which of the above is more sickening, you should be in jail with the maggot that killed the girl.

And this is why people like you don't run the country.

The little girls body isn't even cold yet, and you want to add to the body count. What sort of person does that make you? You're running off emotion - which is fair enough, you're a father, and you love your children, you'd do anything for them.

But what do you think the justice system would be like if it ran off emotion? It'd be chaos - we'd be skipping the collection of evidence, interviews, a trial and going straight to a good old fashion public hangin'. Who cares about guilt or innocence, or trying to search for understanding.

WE WANT BLOOD! SNAP HIS NECK!

It is neither intelligent, wise, or civil.
It is simplistic bloodlust.

TheSneakiness · 27-06-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

21yo man has been charged with murder

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...174162580.html

Being around that age makes me even more sick to the stomach.

How could a person even contemplate doing that?

XRchic · 27-06-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

If you really don't know which of the above is more sickening, you should be in jail with the maggot that killed the girl.

Calm down mate. Thats just being ridiculous.

Everyone is entitled to their point of view.

The problem is that it is too easy and emotionally satisfying to want someone dead for that sort of crime and to vocalise it in a very angry and violent manner. Its just the way we are. However, to consider an alternative to all the revenge killing and such things, takes an ability to think clearly with a lot less emotion, in a more clinical manner (which is required when discussing capital punishment) and an ability to see the crime in the context of society as opposed to one isolated act, and what effect it all has on that society.

Thinking that way sounds soft but the thing is that at the end of the day, these sorts of decisions cannot be made by an emotional and possibly irrational mob with revenge on their minds, but by someone who is more distant and who can make a decision on behalf of the community, not their own emotions. We would all be in trouble if it wasnt that way.

As for going to jail being a soft penalty, well it very much depends. I think life for someone like that in jail could be VERY miserable and people like him often try to kill themselves anyway.

I am not going to argue that our legal system is not strong enough to tackle the punishment of someone like this guy and I am certainly not saying that the punishment that the legal system will dish out will be enough - it probably wont.

I dont know what the answer is, as not everyone will be happy, whatever happens to him.

I think the most important thing is that he has been caught and that he can be taken off the streets where he cannot do it again to another child. And that the dead girl's parents can feel some comfort in the fact that he is caught and locked up.

Thats just my opinion and it all surely makes me want to become a public prosecutor rather than a tax lawyer, I assure you!

edit: I should add that I have a 12 year old daughter, an 8 year old son and a 10 week old son... I do have a parent perspective on the whole thing too.

PH47 · 27-06-2006, 12:55 PM

Let him go to jail, with the existing inmated told beforehand what he did.

Then if/when he gets out, THEN kill the bastard.. slowly..

Casper · 27-06-2006, 12:56 PM

Give the guy a fair trial and if found guilty lock him up for life..... AFTER allowing the family to have a "private chat" with him on the way to prison. Then, in prison, he gets to be in the general population.. that will keep the rockspider jumping.

This guy better get life, no parole, no tv, no radio, no privledges or the legal system will, once again, look like a pathetic joke.

Abacus · 27-06-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biomechanic

And this is why people like you don't run the country.

WTF??? People like me?? I'd rather be like me, than a bleeding heart "society's to blame" child killer protector like you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by biomechanic

The little girls body isn't even cold yet, and you want to add to the body count. What sort of person does that make you?

Somebody who can distinguish between the value of an 8 year old girl's life, and the perverted piece of excrement that killed her

Quote:

Originally Posted by biomechanic

You're running off emotion - which is fair enough

First sensible thing you've said. Something like this is worth getting emotional about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by biomechanic

But what do you think the justice system would be like if it ran off emotion? It'd be chaos - we'd be skipping the collection of evidence, interviews, a trial and going straight to a good old fashion public hangin'. Who cares about guilt or innocence, or trying to search for understanding.

Fine, let the charges be proved beyond all reasonable doubt by due process through the courts.

Then kill him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by biomechanic

WE WANT BLOOD! SNAP HIS NECK!

Second sensible thing you've said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by biomechanic

It is neither intelligent, wise, or civil.
It is simplistic bloodlust.

Rubbish. It's justice.

XRchic · 27-06-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

Rubbish. It's justice.

You know what justice is, do you? You understand the legal concept? You have studied or worked in the area? You are capable of thinking rationally about things which affect society, not just yourself or an individual?

If people like you were running the country, life would be a mess and there would be more senseless deaths, not less!!!

If you have an educated and intelligent reason why you advocate the death penalty, then lets hear it (aside from personal preference, please). But emotional and irrational dribble does not constitute an argument for it... do not blame others for not accepting your position on the issue!

Im not necessarily for or against it as to me, it very much depends on the circumstances. However, what I do know is that it would take a lot of research and investigation before I could make that decision.

biomechanic · 27-06-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

WTF??? People like me?? I'd rather be like me, than a bleeding heart "society's to blame" child killer protector like you.

I'm not bleeding heart, nor would I consider society is to blame. What I am is a person who wants to understand the victim and the killer completely before passing judgement. Things aren't always black and white, they run very deep.

That's a curious reaction from the pro-death penalty lobby - if you're against the death penalty, then you're obviously on the killer's side. It's childishly simplistic, idiotic, and divisive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

Rubbish. It's justice.

Rubbish - it's blood lust. What have you achieved by killing this man?
Two corpses instead of one.
Two families devastated instead of one.

That doesn't seem like justice to me. That seems like idiocy.

fiery · 27-06-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Then, in prison, he gets to be in the general population.. that will keep the rockspider jumping.

The problem with 'rockspiders' as most would call them, they do not go into the general population in jail.
They are usually in protective custody (high security) and are not meant to be allowed to be associated with the other prisoners in other parts of the jail....

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic
I think the most important thing is that he has been caught and that he can be taken off the streets where he cannot do it again to another child.

I think that is the most sensible statement made so far!!!!

qwigybo · 27-06-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluepower

Tragic. what drives a person to behave in such a way, just dreadful.

I cannot write my intentions for this person on a public forum.

as above, imagine how the brother feels :( condolences to anyone who may know them
now wheres the AFF riot squad

Des · 27-06-2006, 01:19 PM

Man charged over murder of girl, 8
From: AAP By Adam Gartrell
June 27, 2006

POLICE have charged a man with murdering and sexually assaulting an eight-year-old school girl whose naked body was found in a toilet at a Perth shopping centre

The girl's body was discovered by her 14-year-old brother in a disabled toilet at Canning Vale's Livingston Marketplace, in the city's south-east, about 4.10pm (WST) yesterday.
Detective Senior Sergeant John Wibberley today said a 21-year-old man was being charged over her death.

"We are pleased to announce that we are, at the moment, preferring charges of wilful murder, depravation of liberty and sexual penetration against a 21-year-old male person from the Canning Vale area," Det Snr Sgt Wibberley said.

Detectives began interviewing the man at 5am (WST) today, Sgt Wibberley said.
"We went to a house in Canningvale this morning, and as a result of what was seized at the house, and the interview at the house, he was taken into custody," he said.

The man is expected to face court later today or tomorrow morning.

Advertisement:
Police will allege the girl was the victim of a random attack.

"We will allege it was a spur of the moment attack at this stage," Sgt Wibberley said.

Police will release the girl's name later today, once all her family members have been informed.

Sgt Wibberley said the girl's father had flown in from Hong Kong to be with his family.

"The family is absolutely distraught as you can imagine," he said.

"It is probably the worst nightmare for any family with a young child."

Sgt Wibberley said the girl's family members might have knocked on the locked toilet door while she was being attacked.
He said the man lived with his parents and worked as a shop assistant in the Canningvale area.

He would not say whether the man worked at the shopping centre where the girl was killed, nor would he confirm the cause of until after a post-mortem examination.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I hope he crosses paths with the "regular" prison body....

DJL351 · 27-06-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

This guy better get life, no parole, no tv, no radio, no privledges or the legal system will, once again, look like a pathetic joke.

And here lies the first problem..... He won't get life.
This is why some ask for tougher penalties.

Abacus · 27-06-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

You know what justice is, do you? You understand the legal concept? You have studied or worked in the area?

Yes. Approximately one third of my degree invilved the study of law, and I broadly work in the area every day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

You are capable of thinking rationally about things which affect society, not just yourself or an individual?

Indeed. Society is substantially improved by the permanent removal of vermin such as this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

If people like you were running the country, life would be a mess and there would be more senseless deaths, not less!!!

Utter crap. Dead peadophiles don't molest children. Dead child killers don't kill children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

If you have an educated and intelligent reason why you advocate the death penalty, then lets hear it (aside from personal preference, please). But emotional and irrational dribble does not constitute an argument for it... do not blame others for not accepting your position on the issue!

Read my posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

Im not necessarily for or against it as to me, it very much depends on the circumstances.

If circumstances such as those that gave rise to this thread don't warrant the death penalty, precisely what circumstances do so warrant it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

However, what I do know is that it would take a lot of research and investigation before I could make that decision.

Fine. Do the research and investigation.

Then kill him.

XRchic · 27-06-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

Yes. Approximately one third of my degree invilved the study of law, and I broadly work in the area every day.

Indeed. Society is substantially improved by the permanent removal of vermin such as this.

Utter crap. Dead peadophiles don't molest children. Dead child killers don't kill children.

Read my posts.

If circumstances such as those that gave rise to this thread don't warrant the death penalty, precisely what circumstances do so warrant it?

Fine. Do the research and investigation.

Then kill him.

Well Im sorry. Not for having an opinion - we all have them. But for how you expressed it and then defended it.

DJL351 · 27-06-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

The reason why I would not be in favour of the death penalty is a) death is an easy way out and b) WHAT IF YOU PUT THE WRONG PERSON TO DEATH?

In these times and the technoligy around.... what are the chances???
About 0%
Now if we are to be concerned about getting the wrong person... lets just let them go.
I mean we could lock the wrong person up for life too!

Abacus · 27-06-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

And here lies the first problem..... He won't get life.
This is why some ask for tougher penalties.

Yep. Serial killer Ivan Milat got a TV and a toaster for "good behaviour".

And he still won't tell the police and the relatives of his other victims where the bodies of their loved ones are.

4.9 EF Futura · 27-06-2006, 01:28 PM

Abacus, you've failed to address the question (as do most death penalty supporters) of what if it were you being tried for a savage crime that you did not commit?

Maybe wrong place/wrong time, being framed, mistaken identity etc. For whatever reason - innocent people are awarded death sentences.

What if it were you?

DJL351 · 27-06-2006, 01:29 PM

Okay.... I can see this going the way of the dodo.

Abacus, you need to chill.
The people in here are not the enemy.

D

Abacus · 27-06-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

Not for having an opinion - we all have them. But for how you expressed it and then defended it.

I expressed my opinions appropriately, given the circumstances.

Laminge · 27-06-2006, 01:32 PM

Please people keep this civil, if you are angry, take a step back, go for a walk then come back

DJL351 · 27-06-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Abacus, you've failed to address the question (as do most death penalty supporters) of what if it were you being tried for a savage crime that you did not commit?

Maybe wrong place/wrong time, being framed, mistaken identity etc. For whatever reason - innocent people are awarded death sentences.

What if it were you?

What if's..... what if the kid wasn't a weirdo in the first place!?

In this day and age, you would be hard pressed to find someone wrongfully on a murder charge.
(like the one this thread was started about)

4.9 EF Futura · 27-06-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

In these times and the technoligy around.... what are the chances???
About 0%
Now if we are to be concerned about getting the wrong person... lets just let them go.
I mean we could lock the wrong person up for life too!

"About" 0%? If you cant guarantee 0% then you're effectively sanctioning the murder of innocent people.

Im not sure if you saw the other link but in the USA, they've had 4 cases over a period of 19 months where new/revised facts have been brought to the table.

Yes - innocent people can be locked up, but there's the chance that, if facts are brought to light which clear this person's name - there is hope of undoing the injustice which has been done.

Death is the one thing in this world which is truly permanent and you want to hand it out in the absence of reasonable doubt?

fiery · 27-06-2006, 01:35 PM

There are arguments for and against the Death Penalty...

But I really don't believe this is a place for it to be discussed.. not within this thread anyway.

This is about a family that has been tragically destroyed due to one person's actions.

Abacus while I can understand what you are saying and in part agree, I really think you need to take a deep breath and let all evidence be produced prior to getting the injection, noose, chair fired up and ready.... He sexually assaulted the girl, this we know... SO there must be DNA somewhere..

Let the evidence be produced first. Then try to discuss rationally.