who's been JMM'd ?

sfr rob · 03-11-2005, 06:49 PM

hey guys, just want to know who has got any JMM dev kits on there cars, and what benifits you got from getting the kit?
i was looking at the DEV 3 or 4 from JMM, since it costs near 10 grand to get a half decent turbo set up for the AU I6's.

http://www.jimmockmotorsport.com/htm...kits_EA-AU.php

i already have a 2.5' exhaust, so hopefully i wont need to replace it, cause it new!

can anyone tell me what my 0-100 times would be in a sedan, and what times you could expect down the quarter, although i would never drag race! :togo:

thanks
Rob

**Stav** · 03-11-2005, 08:12 PM

So far dev 3 and xr6 hp cammed cars are on par with each other as far as times go.The dev 4 in my AU is good but is quoted with another 30 rwkws more power than I have with the head at 160rwks.
I would recommend a unichip and xr6 hp cam for bang for buck over dev 3hl.You dont need springs,shims or any other can of worms with the 160 dollar billet cam.You dont even need a vernier gear..
If you get serious about power go the dev 5a full kit and get JMM to do it.However in my mind I believe that a full dev 4 kit will be torquier.

03-11-2005, 09:35 PM

well we fitted a jmm street fighter cam with valve springs and vernier gear and cai kit to our 5spd au 2 s pack.
we already had lukey headers hi flow cat and 2 1/2 zorst .
it made about 140 rwk and after we fitted a unichip it made 159rwk
the best qter i got out of it at that stage was a 14.596 @94.9 mph.wich is pretty excellent for the money i spent .
there gear definatley works .
i'm not to sure on regrind cams though ,there's a lot of stuffing around with shim's and what not to get them to work properly on an au.plus the strange way jmm get you to dial in there cams is a bit out there .

AU:PROJECT:UTE · 04-11-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

So far dev 3 and xr6 hp cammed cars are on par with each other as far as times go.The dev 4 in my AU is good but is quoted with another 30 rwkws more power than I have with the head at 160rwks.
I would recommend a unichip and xr6 hp cam for bang for buck over dev 3hl.You dont need springs,shims or any other can of worms with the 160 dollar billet cam.You dont even need a vernier gear..

Are you saying I could drop the HP cam straight into a standard I6 without changing anything ie headwork of any description?
If there is anyone that could shed even a small amount of light on this for me it would be appreciated.

The way I see it that if you can buy the cam for $150 (the price listed here at work) and fit it without additional headwork being required. A difference of 7Kw according to the factory specs between the standard and HP engines, it would appear to be a nice affordable mod with decent bang for buck value. For the price and using a factory camshaft appeals to me because my vehicle is my only transport and I would feel happier fitting a factory made cam. Just a little more peace of mind I guess.

My other question was that what are the differences between the standard multipoint I6 and the HP engines??

Casper · 04-11-2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU:PROJECT:UTE

My other question was that what are the differences between the standard multipoint I6 and the HP engines??

The XR heads are different. The ONLY difference is the head and the cam actually.
So yes, you can put and XR6 cam in a stock I6 head but No, it will not make it the same as an XR6... theres more to it than just a cam.

Sleeperau · 04-11-2005, 03:54 PM

[QUOTE=AU:PROJECT:UTE]

The way I see it that if you can buy the cam for $150 (the price listed here at work) and fit it without additional headwork being required. A difference of 7Kw according to the factory specs between the standard and HP engines, it would appear to be a nice affordable mod with decent bang for buck value. For the price and using a factory camshaft appeals to me because my vehicle is my only transport and I would feel happier fitting a factory made cam. Just a little more peace of mind I guess.

What is the number for this cam & where can I get one from. I want one!

loxxr6 · 04-11-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

The way I see it that if you can buy the cam for $150 (the price listed here at work) and fit it without additional headwork being required. A difference of 7Kw according to the factory specs between the standard and HP engines, it would appear to be a nice affordable mod with decent bang for buck value. For the price and using a factory camshaft appeals to me because my vehicle is my only transport and I would feel happier fitting a factory made cam. Just a little more peace of mind I guess.

I have an XR6 Cam lying around for $100 (plus postage...or pick it up) if you want it.

Oh and to answer the original question, I have a dev5 cam (but not with the associated headwork that it needs). Mid/top end has definately increased with a sacrifice of a bit down low. I've yet to run the car. The idle is definately lumpier but it's not a pig to drive. My car has a manual transmission.

cArSiK · 04-11-2005, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfr rob

hey guys, just want to know who has got any JMM dev kits on there cars, and what benifits you got from getting the kit?
i was looking at the DEV 3 or 4 from JMM, since it costs near 10 grand to get a half decent turbo set up for the AU I6's.

http://www.jimmockmotorsport.com/htm...kits_EA-AU.php

i already have a 2.5' exhaust, so hopefully i wont need to replace it, cause it new!

can anyone tell me what my 0-100 times would be in a sedan, and what times you could expect down the quarter, although i would never drag race! :togo:

thanks
Rob

JMM make great stuff. I ordered a set of Street Fighter Headers from them yesterday and cant wait to get them fitted.....From what i hear i should get a nice increase with a 2.5"Zorst....

AU:PROJECT:UTE · 04-11-2005, 05:20 PM

Ahh thanks Casper, guess I'll make my engine a guinea pig for this then. I'll get it dynoed next week, the week after I'll fit the cam and then I'll find out if it makes it go any better. Casper would you know if there would be any complications because of the differences between standard and HP if I run an XR cam on a standard head. I expect it to not be as effective as an XR head.
Just had a quick look in Microcat; HP heads are still available new without valves and springs. Would this be a huge job to take on to build an HP XR head?? Anyone who has had some experience rebuilding heads please speak up addressing any stumbling points?

**Stav** · 04-11-2005, 07:44 PM

I believe the xr6 cam is an awesome cam and way underrated.For 150 bucks try it and if your not happy rip it back out.I think with a chip and maybe dialled in that cam is pretty dam good.Chuck a jmm head on it and should be a balltearer

sfr rob · 05-11-2005, 11:58 AM

so what do you guys mean?

if i buy the xr6 camn for only $150, install it, i should see a gain in performance? it cant be THAT simple and cheap!!

just wondering what exactly is it that makes the DEV kits soo pricey... my guess is that it would be the expert tuning, and labour that they perform on the motor, but the parts cant be THAT expensive, or can they?

It's funny if you read up, there isnt a 100% sure answer everyone has different opinions, so it makes my decision hard! LOL

cheers
rob

jonbays · 05-11-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfr rob

so what do you guys mean?

if i buy the xr6 camn for only $150, install it, i should see a gain in performance? it cant be THAT simple and cheap!!

just wondering what exactly is it that makes the DEV kits soo pricey... my guess is that it would be the expert tuning, and labour that they perform on the motor, but the parts cant be THAT expensive, or can they?

It's funny if you read up, there isnt a 100% sure answer everyone has different opinions, so it makes my decision hard! LOL

cheers
rob

I would say the XR6 cam in an AU with a unichip would be a good street combo nice broad powerband with good power delivery down low.

modded parts will always have to carry the mark up of the time spent developing them though not just the manufacturing cost or who would muck around for months trying all sorts of things for someone else for nothing. You wouldn't i wouldn't and neither does Jim.

sfr rob · 05-11-2005, 03:17 PM

so what kind of extractors would i want to get, running lpg also.

i want to put together a shopping list of stuff to get, so i know what ball park figure i am playing with!

shopping list
1: xr6 HP cam. < wreckers? $ ? 150??
3: extractors, which ones for overall performance and power gains?<JMM $ ?
2:uni chip / new AU edit that i havent heard anything good about yet...<$ ?
4.smile, to put on my face after these mods hopefully wake my car up a bit!

can anyone add more to the list?

thanks
Rob

Casper · 05-11-2005, 03:25 PM

running LPG you can pretty much slap on any extractors. Since the intake is restricted by the mixer ring the exhaust isnt anywhere near as critical as if it were PULP only. Just grab some pacies or genies. JMM streetfighters are the better option IMHO but they wont give massive gains over the others on LPG.
As for a unichip... once again I'm not real sure it would be worth it on LPG as it cant control fueling... but it certainly would make some sort of imporvement just in timing alone.

Unfortunatly Rob, on the AU I6, as soon as you head down the LPG path the performance options become very minimal as the LPG restricts the options.

sfr rob · 05-11-2005, 03:43 PM

damn damn damn damn damn!
i thought so... lpg blows!!!

AU:PROJECT:UTE · 05-11-2005, 03:44 PM

XR6 HP Cam genuine number is ELHT-6250-A.
Well come tuesday morning I will have the new cam arriving. Sometime during the week I would be hoping to get the cam changed over. But i'm not overly sure how long its going to take me but I shall keep you all posted. On another note I found a dyno in my little old country town. I am not expecting great accuracy but it will be the only dyno I use so it should give some indication of whether or not the cam works.

jonbays · 05-11-2005, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU:PROJECT:UTE

XR6 HP Cam genuine number is ELHT-6250-A.
Well come tuesday morning I will have the new cam arriving. Sometime during the week I would be hoping to get the cam changed over. But i'm not overly sure how long its going to take me but I shall keep you all posted. On another note I found a dyno in my little old country town. I am not expecting great accuracy but it will be the only dyno I use so it should give some indication of whether or not the cam works.

Good luck with it. You only want before and after runs on the dyno to show gains or not who cares about the actual number as long as its more.

dual fuel LPG can be a big performance inhibitor so think about what you want here as LPG mixers are big restrictors that will kill high rev performance.

**Stav** · 05-11-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfr rob

so what do you guys mean?

if i buy the xr6 camn for only $150, install it, i should see a gain in performance? it cant be THAT simple and cheap!!

just wondering what exactly is it that makes the DEV kits soo pricey... my guess is that it would be the expert tuning, and labour that they perform on the motor, but the parts cant be THAT expensive, or can they?

It's funny if you read up, there isnt a 100% sure answer everyone has different opinions, so it makes my decision hard! LOL

cheers
rob

Listen to JonBays .It is refreshing to read his posts as he calls it as he sees it.If you have lpg go see gas research if you are in Victoria.Despite all the bagging of lpg it can get some awesome power with it. The xr6 hp cars ive seen so far perform really well withan xorst,headers and chip.

Listen to useless on this one ..CALL GAS RESEARCH..you will be flogging us petrol guys.

sfr rob · 05-11-2005, 10:07 PM

ok, thanks for the advice!
i have hear lots about gas research, i thought that wasjust a name for the type of installations done by random joints...

but now that i know it is a specialised place.... hmmmmmm

dedicated gas maybe???

**Stav** · 05-11-2005, 10:10 PM

Those guys are the bees knees and the ants pants. My bro has met the owner and I have heard of their work for many years.

Casper · 05-11-2005, 10:23 PM

Useless, in NA form I havent seen an LPG I6 run better then 15.7 ET with all the fruit. Maybe you have seen something I havent?

Sourbastard · 05-11-2005, 10:42 PM

Yep. LPG will not gain significant power without forced induction due to low density of the gas. To get power you need to compress the air fuel flow.

Unless you are planning on buying a turbo or a supercharger, dont plan on making huge increases on power running on LPG.

**Stav** · 05-11-2005, 11:15 PM

theyve been talking to the wrong people.Have a chat to Gas Research down there and get a realistic opinion

Casper · 06-11-2005, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

theyve been talking to the wrong people.Have a chat to Gas Research down there and get a realistic opinion

I'm well aware of Gas Research and again, in NA form, an LPG I6 Falcon is not going to get even close to the performance of an petrol I6 Falcon with the same mods. Facts are that until direct injection LPG arrives (its got some major benifits) the current gas setups simply cannot produce enough power.

Why?
LPG is drawn in through the manifold, therefor displacing air. LPG requires more fuel to burn to achieve the same explosive power as petrol... but as a gas is also not as dense as petrol. Therefore needs considerably more room than petrol. So its a triple whammy. You need more LPG than petrol, LPG takes up much more space than petrol in equal amounts and LPG is displacing air in the intake. Simple fact is LPG systems, in there current form, are NOT AS POWERFUL as petrol.

**Stav** · 06-11-2005, 09:13 AM

I have heard the lpg cars can run12.5:1 compression without detonation mate.Petrol has max of around 10:1 with unleaded premium a must.i think if you do look into it you will find as our developments that the sky is really the limit.

Casper · 06-11-2005, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

I have heard the lpg cars can run12.5:1 compression without detonation mate.Petrol has max of around 10:1 with unleaded premium a must.i think if you do look into it you will find as our developments that the sky is really the limit.

Stav, you can have as much compression as you want, if there isnt enough fuel or air getting in it wont matter. Thats why turbos on LPG cars are a whole different story. The turbo can force enough in (and do it damn effectively) but a natrually aspirated engine (talking 4.0 I6 Falcon) simply cannot get enough LPG and air into the engine when compared to petrol.

sfr rob · 06-11-2005, 09:53 AM

so basically... i am roooted!
hahahaha

might just go and buy a 4cyl car!

Sourbastard · 06-11-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

theyve been talking to the wrong people.Have a chat to Gas Research down there and get a realistic opinion

I researched LPG quite heavily when i was planning a fuel system for my Boss 302. The reason I'm not using it? Because its extremely difficult to draw power from the fuel unless its compressed, and I did not want the hassle of fitting a supercharger. This is it. The fuel itself is a hurdle in a gaseous uncompressed state. The velocity is low, the density is low, and as a rule no matter what you do in a naturally aspirated vehicle the vehicle WILL make less power using a conventional gas mixer ring.

There are options such as direct LPG injection(Which GAS Research dont deal in), which is expensive, and the injectors themselves have a very finite lifespan.

About the only way to increase the power in an LPG system in a noticeable fashion longterm, is by using traditional means, primarily increasing the stroke of the engine. This allows more fuel charge to be drawn in, and makes porting of the head far more effective. Of course if you do this in an engine running ANY fuel you will get an increase in power, hence why it works, and the only reason it works.

And 10:1 is hardly the limit of premium petrol. Boss 302's came standard at 10.5:1, and many run 13:1 compression.

The right people you reckon? The right people to agree with you and tell you what you want to hear? How realistic is that.

Sourbastard · 06-11-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfr rob

so basically... i am roooted!
hahahaha

might just go and buy a 4cyl car!

Nah mate, you arent screwed, you just have to change the plans or your expectations a bit.

sfr rob · 06-11-2005, 10:05 AM

I still dont know what to do, i want more power, i dont want to have to pull the whole LPG set up out.
i dont want to turbo, cant bring my self to flog off 10G's for that!

i will get extractors.

so you dont think that a uni chip wont work while running lpg?